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[ഞാ ആഗ് 17 2008]
*** You have joined channel #bmslug  [08:32]
*** Users on #bmslug: shyam_k prasad @ChanServ 
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*** #bmslug was created on ഞായര്‍ 2008/08/10 09:32:18  IST
<shyam_k> hi
<shyam_k> thanks
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<shyam_k> hi all:)
<prasad> hi all
<shyam_k> hi prasad :)
<t3rm1n4l> hi
<prasad> we are about to start
<shyam_k> good!  [08:33]
<shyam_k> thanks to praveen ji too!
*** prasad (n=prasad@121.245.56.255) has set the topic for #bmslug: "No
    Software Patents Bangalore Discussion
    http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Say_No_To_Software_Patents"
<shyam_k> can i say about this in #gnu or #fsf?! or do we expect some experts
	  to participate?  [08:34]
<prasad> shyam_k,  ok
<prasad> shyam_k,  nagarjuna sir is suppose to join here now  [08:37]
<shyam_k> great!
<shyam_k> in the irc? or physically?!
<shyam_k> ;-)
<prasad> irc  [08:38]
<shyam_k> great! wonderful!  [08:39]
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<shyam_k> wow! hi gn :)
<gn> hi
<prasad> gn, hi we started   [08:40]
ERC> /query prasad   [08:41]
<gn> is the 27th meeting confirmed
<prasad> gn, venky is telling it is confirmed
<gn> now and then send me a summary of what you people are talking.  I will
     keep this session on  [08:42]
<prasad> gn, can you just brief us about the current situation?
<gn> to help people who file patent applications, indian patent office is
     writing a manual  [08:44]
<gn> its draft is what is being discussed
<gn> this draft is not only about software, but about how to file patents in
     general
<gn> the draft does say clearly that 'software per se is not patentable' as
     per the law.  [08:45]
<gn> however, the instructions given in the manual clearly tell people that
     you can file software patents in combination with hardware
<gn> what we have to do is to not let that interpretation go under 3(k).
								        [08:46]
<gn> please see sectiion 4 for non-patentable items. and read the relevant
     sections.
<gn> previously the industry tried to change the law by a presidential
     ordinance but parliament rejected it.  [08:47]
<gn> that should be our argument.  how can the manual try to enable a
     possibility that law forbids.  [08:48]
<gn> and most important:
<gn> software does not work unless in combination with hardware.
<gn> therefore, if software in combination with hardware is patentable, then
     all software is patentable
<gn> that is obsurd.
<gn> this is the strongest argument to not make such statements in the manual
								        [08:49]
<gn> and we should interpret such attempts as equivalent to backdoor entries
<gn> to abuse the law
<gn> does it make sense, or you want any elaboration
<prasad> gn, it is good  [08:52]
<shyam_k> and it seems some patents have already filed stating the software
	  works differently with different size of ram etc.. and i read in
	  businessline in a news about providing free internet through
	  kiosk,that the system including the software are patented.. it seems
	  the news is this
	  http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2008/05/07/stories/2008050751862300.htm
	  but i am not sure..  [08:53]
<gn> patents are filed, and I do not think they are granted.  [08:54]
<shyam_k> ah yes..
<gn> we need to be vigilant and object
<gn> however, currently our focus should not be diffused
<gn> concentrate on the elaborations and help statements written under 3(k),
     and ensure that they say clearly that software in combination with
     hardware is not patentable  [08:55]
<gn> those industries who are pushing this through backdoor must be informed
     that:
<shyam_k> is that draft available online?
<gn> 1. software is already protected under IPR under copyright, and no
     additional protection either to individuals or industries is required
								        [08:56]
<gn> 2. hardware innovations are already patentable under the regular
     innovations
<gn> therefore all innovators are already covered
<gn> 3. the current ICt revolutioin happened is a fact on the face that we do
     not need any more encouragement to the innovators  [08:57]
<gn> and keep science and technology under public domain.
<gn> yes the draft is available on the patent office site  [08:58]
<gn> If you cannot find it, I can mail it to you
<prasad> shyam_k,  it is listed in FCI page
<shyam_k> oh ok..  [08:59]
<gn> read james message now, and one of you head to doordarshan's office today
     if possible
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<prasad> gn, What is it about?  [09:06]
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<no_mind> hello  [09:12]
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<no_mind> ok discuss patents  [09:19]
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<prasad> g1, software is  not worn out  [09:23]
<prasad> g1, how is it an argument against software patents?
<prasad> g1, it was in Lawrence's document  [09:24]
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<coolbhavi> when does meet start?
<shyam_k> coolbhavi: it has started.. with nagarjuna sir briefing the
	  situation.. i can pm the logs if you want..  [09:36]
<coolbhavi> shyam_k, isnt it over irc?  [09:37]
<shyam_k> its primarily offline at bms college..
<coolbhavi> shyam_k, Ok! i just returned home from college.. I dint have a
	    look at the auditorium ...:)  [09:38]
<shyam_k> !:)
<coolbhavi> shyam_k, are you from BMS?  [09:40]
<no_mind> now where is bms college ?
<coolbhavi> Bangalore   [09:41]
<shyam_k> coolbhavi: no
<coolbhavi> I am a student of that college no_mind   [09:42]
<prasad> coolbhavi, PG block
<coolbhavi> prasad, PG block which floor  [09:43]
<prasad> first floor vishweshwarayya hall   [09:44]
<coolbhavi> ok! dept of environmental engineering got it!  [09:45]
<prasad> we will summarise it and update on the wiki  [09:48]
<prasad> http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Say_No_To_Software_Patents
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<shyam_k> ah now anyone here from bms? i have the answer for prasad..  [09:55]
<shyam_k> Software doesn't wear out: In other industries, research continues
	  up to a point where
<shyam_k> further research costs too much to be feasible. At this stage, the
	  industry's output merely
<shyam_k> consists of replacing parts that have worn out.
<shyam_k>         However, in the software sector, a computer program that is
	  fully debugged will
<shyam_k> perform its function forever without requiring maintenance or
	  modification. “What this
<shyam_k> means is that unlike socks that wear out, and breakfast cereal that
	  is eaten, a particular
<shyam_k> software product can be sold to a particular customer at most
	  once. If it is to be sold to
<shyam_k> that customer again, it must be enhanced with new features and
	  functionality.” This
<shyam_k> inevitably means that even if the industry were to approach
	  maturity, any software
<shyam_k> company that does not produce new and innovative products will
	  simply run out of
<shyam_k> customers! Thus, the industry will remain innovative whether or not
	  software patents
<shyam_k> exist.
<shyam_k> 
<shyam_k> ops sorry for flooding..!:(  [09:56]
<karunakar> patent in this case would imply - let me patent it so that no one
	    else can do similar enhancement, to sell more!  [09:58]
<coolbhavi> shyam_k, no problems its a small channel
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<shyam_k> anivar ji just called me.. and he said that the meeting is over
	  there.. and they are planning public protest and all by 22 or 23 or
	  so.. first hand information will be there in wiki soon.. and i am
	  adding the irc log too..  [10:00]
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ERC> 

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